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Monday, March 11, 2013

Missionary On the Phone

I't's always a good day for me when the question takes up almost the whole post. I shall confess my laziness later and polish the pews with extra vigor.

Dear Sister, A few years ago members of the LDS church were courting me. I started talking to them because I needed someone (anyone) to talk to about God. I am a practicing Catholic and knew right away that I would never convert because you just can't get the Eucharist any where else! But after a while I did realize that the Book of Mormon is really suspect and I don't agree with much of what they preach at all, so I broke it off with them. About a month ago I listened to a CD from Lighthouse media called "From Mormon Missionary to the Catholic Church" by Thomas Smith. I was wowed by his advice and experiences, but I also felt that maybe I'd wasted a good opportunity to point out what the scripture really has to say about some important issues for the LDS church (Smith goes in to a lot of this in his talk. He says that when he was a missionary he had never sought out other translations or even looked at the verses they use to back up their theology in their original context.  He was introduced to other ways of reading the verses through his missionary work with a woman who had a NRSV Bible).

So, today I got a call from the LDS again, asking if anything had changed in my life and if I'd like to learn more about their church. I said no... but now I feel like maybe I should call them back?

Nothing has changed for me, except that I may be better prepared to be a Catholic missionary to the LDS missionaries. My dilemma is that I want to talk to them in order to give context to some of the material they use to back up their claims... in order to make them take a look at their faith in LDS... but that seems dishonest to me. I know I'm on the right spiritual path for me... but should I be messing with theirs under the pretence that I want to know more about their faith?
Is it better to pretend not to know about some of their teachings in order to shed some light for them, or is it better to be honest and let them stay in the dark?

Oh, it gets better. Now all I have to do to inspire you is post this link to the saint of the day, St. John Olgilvie.

No one is asking you to tough it out in Scotland or even Utah. 

To get to your question, should you call them back under the pretense of wanting to know more? No. That would be dishonest.  St. Augustine believed that lying was the very worst sin. Or maybe it was St. Thomas Aquinas. One of those two thought that.  

Should you let them stay in the dark?  You don't have to.

They didn't call you and ask, "do you want to join our church?"  They called and said, "Has anything changed?"  And the answer to that is, "Yes! I researched a lot about your tenets of faith and I am happy to tell you I have found my faith! In the Catholic Church." You could call them back and say you realized that you didn't answer the question they had fully.  "Thanks for calling me!  I realized that I wasn't fully present when you called and I'd like to tell you the answer to the question that you asked."

My bet is that they won't hang up on you.  These are people that go door to door. They LOVE to argue about their teachings. When I was a child my mother always let them in when they came to the door and we had quite the discussion on every occasion.  I don't know if we got through to them.  But we certainly listened to what they had to say about Joseph Smith and his Golden Ticket that got lost in a haystack after he was the only person to see it.  That was enough for me as a ten year old to cast serious doubt on this religion, not founded by Jesus at all. Although I think there was something in there about Jesus having come here to the United States in a canoe. I couldn't take any of it seriously, but the people that came to the door were lovely, polite young men.  

Meanwhile, if it was good enough to inspire St. John Olgilvie, it's good enough to inspire us. Here is little Cindy Bush, whoever she is, singing a favorite of mine, "Come Unto Him" from Handel's "Messiah".

"Come unto Him, all ye that labor. Come unto Him ye that are heavy laden, and he shall give ye rest. Take His yolk upon you and learn of Him. For He is meek and lowly of heart. And ye shall find rest. And ye shall find rest unto your soul."

A wonderful thing to keep in mind for Lent.

It's odd to me that everyone seems to think the "Hallelujah Chorus" from Handel's "Messiah" is a Christmas song. It isn't. Handel's famous number tells the story of the whole life of Christ and the "Hallelujah Chorus" is the big finale after the Resurrection. In my mind it is more properly an Easter song.  Maybe we'll start an "Messiah" for Easter campaign.


SAC said...

Dear SMM,

I cringe when you say that Mormon missionaries love to argue, because I know it's unfortunately true at times, and I fear falling into that trap myself. What I tell my friends, though, is: you can hate us, but please hate us for something that is actually true of us, rather than for an inaccuracy. (Or think we're stupid. Or whatever. You know.)

And now, for the sake of letting us disagree on things we actually disagree on (but you might have been joking, in which case I would feel extra-stupid for having corrected you): please forgive me for feeling worried that some of your readers might take you literally when you mention a "golden ticket" instead of golden plates, and Jesus arriving in a canoe, rather than descending from heaven as is described in 3 Nephi 11 (an account found in the Book of Mormon, which we Mormons believe was translated from the golden plates).

Anonymous said...

Spelling police here, Sister (sorry!). It's St. John Ogilvie, not Olgilvie.

Anonymous said...

I actually enjoy talking religion and faith. I give the Mormans props for actually going out and spreading their faith (which they believe to be true). Not enough Catholics do that in the US. I also like to talk to Mormans about the Catholic faith. They are usually not well versed in the Catholic faith. And bringing them back to the Gospel and the true church formed by Christ can give them something to think about. I remember one young man, late teenager maybe, who sat outside and talked to me for about 1/2 hour. I encouraged him to study the Catholic faith-which was the ONLY church in the world for more than 1500 years. And when the protestants broke away, it's like getting your religious education second hand. Like getting legal advise from someone who dropped out of law school. And every time someone broke away from that broken faith, they lost even more. And the mormons have lost a lot. I just kept encouraging him to go back to the beginning.

De Maria said...


How do you handle the fact that Scripture says:
Galatians 1:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

It seems to me that the LDS teaches a totally different Gospel than that which was taught by the Apostles. But, please correct me if I'm wrong.

De Maria said...

Hi Sister,

As for me, I'm generally not concerned about converting anyone. I think that is God's job. My job is to:

1 Peter 3:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Of course, I'm still working on the "with meekness" part. I've got a long way to go.

As for the LDS, I'd suggest to your reader that he or she, simply wait. They will be back. In the meantime, take the time to prepare an argument (in the sense of logical response).

1. Practice in the mirror.

Practice remaining calm. Practice a pre-prepared speech.

2. Lead the discussion.

Practice phrases that turn the discussion to your focus. For instance, say the LDS wants to speak about the "worlds" in Heb 1:2. Politely ignore it and say, "I prefer to meditate upon Matt 16:18-19). It consoles my hear to know that Jesus promised that His Church would never fall into apostasy."

Of course, you know that the LDS believe that the Church apostasized in the Third Century.

Learn what things they will try to teach and learn to turn the argument to the things the Catholic Church teaches.

3. Give credit where credit is due. Give them a great deal of respect. Let them know how much you admire their faith. I do. I don't think I would have the courage to walk door to door evangelizing.

4. God judges people by their works. Not by their knowledge. In the judgment, God won't ask us what we know. He will tell us what we did and did not do:

Revelation 22:12-15
King James Version (KJV)
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


De Maria

Jana said...

I am also LDS. I am disappointed in you, Sister Mary Martha. I have had people say unfair and unkind things about my religion before, but I really didn't expect it from you.

Apiarist said...


Can you clear up why Mormons believe that any criticism of their doctrine is purely inspired by Satan?
Below are quotes from your own church leaders:

1. "I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian churches), for they were all wrong…their creeds were an abomination in [God’s] sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (Joseph Smith—History 1:19).

2. "Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian" (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).

3. "Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast" (Journal of Discourses, John Taylor [3rd Mormon President], 13:225).

4. "The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon" (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, Orson Pratt, n. 6, 84).

5. "All the priests who adhere to the sectarian [Christian] religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels" (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, ed. Vol. 1, n. 4, 60).

6. [Under the heading, "Church of the Devil," Apostle Bruce R. McConkie lists:] "The Roman Catholic Church specifically—singled out, set apart, described, and designated as being ‘most abominable above all other churches’ (I Ne. 13:5)" (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, 129).

7. "Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).

Thank you kindly.


Apiarist said...


You are welcome to answer the question I posed to SAC.

Thank you kindly.


SAC said...

I'm thinking! Not ignoring... I wish to give a thoughtful and clear response to your generally excellent questions.

SAC said...


To the first anonymous: check out what De Maria says in her second comment-- that we Mormons believe that the True Church was lost shortly after the death of Christ, and that our church is that same church that Christ founded, restored. We don't see ourselves as a break-off at all, but as being grafted into the True Vine, so to speak. Obviously you-all disagree on that point, but this IS a genuine disagreement, not misinformation about Mormons.

De Maria: great questions! Unfortunately, because I am very tired and unsure of my ability to write answers out clearly tonight, I'm not even going to try. If really want, you can wander over to try chatting with a Real Live Mormon on mormon.org, or invite the missionaries over, or talk to your Mormon friends; if any of the above aren't sure how to answer you, it's high time they figured it out. And yes, DO tell them I said that.

Cool that you're using the KJV! I love the language used-- having been raised reading it was a HUGE advantage, both spiritually and intellectually, that I did not even begin to appreciate until I was an adult.

I am a little confused, though-- do American Catholics usually use this Protestant (if excellent) translation of the Bible? I am in no way, shape, or form an expert on Catholics, but I had understood that you-all used the Vulgate because you and the Separated Brethren have slightly different views on what should be included. Or perhaps you were just using it because you know that's the version Mormons usually use, and you're hoping to be fair in your arguing with us?

Anonymous said...

Just to give an example of how Mormons and Christians interpret scripture differently: Matthew 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?" 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli'jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
We Catholics believe the binding and loosing power to mean the power to forgive sins, specifically in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Mormons believe this refers to binding one another in marriage, where they believe a "bound marriage" will continue into the afterlife. That would completely contradict Matthew 22:23 On that day there came to him Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection: and they asked him, 24saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 25Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first married and deceased, and having no seed left his wife unto his brother; 26in like manner the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. 27And after them all the woman died. 28In the resurrection therefore whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29But Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven.

My Mormon friend says, "We'll just have to agree to disagree" when I ask her about that.

We could learn a lot from them in this year of the New Evangelization. Why DON'T we go door to door? Why DON'T we have Family Home Evening? Why DON'T we take care of each other, the way Mormons do in their wards? Their doctrine may not be as sound as ours, but they sure have "Love thy (Mormom) neighbor" nailed down pretty well.
-Catholic School Teacher

De Maria said...

Take all the time you need.

SAC said...

And now for Apiarist:

It's a fine balance to believe that yours is the correct religion, and yet be open to the fact that there are genuinely good people around you who never have and never will share that religion. You've gathered some of the "We're right, and you're wrong" quotes from my church leaders. My first response is to say that there are also quotes (which are both more recent and more central than most of the quotes you cite) along the lines of "Look, there are lots of great people from other religions who agree with us on lots of stuff, and we should be respectful of them and kind to them and WORK with them to make the world a better place" -- like (my example, but a true one) our ongoing partnership with Catholic Charities which began during the famine in Ethiopia in the 80's, because their nuns-on-the-ground were THE most effective at getting aid to the people who needed it most. (Our Presiding Bishopric member was a little surprised during his first in-country visit when the Ethiopians kept calling him and his (male) colleagues "sister;" they eventually figured out that, because of those nuns, "sister" had come to mean "white person who is here to help.")

Also, I agree that Brother Bruce R. can be a little hair-on-fire-y at times. He is for me, too. Because I am trying to defend my faith, not give you more ammo, I am not going to list any specific examples...

But I will quote Neil Anderson, whom we Mormons believe is a modern-day Apostle. I actually thought about Brother McConkie, even as Brother Anderson was saying this.

"There is an important principle that governs the doctrine of the Church. The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find.

The leaders of the Church are honest but imperfect men. Remember the words of Moroni: “Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father … ; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been.”

I believe that SMM's version of There Are Some Statements By Church Leaders Which Need Proper Interpretation is to point out that a dog got canonized once. As a matter of fact, one of the things I love A LOT about her blog is the fact that she gives understandable interpretations of Catholic doctrines and practices which I have found confusing before. The opportunity doesn't come up often, I admit, but I have, on occasion, defended the Catholic faith from those who thought, because of various events of the last few years, it could be nothing but corrupt. I do this because, in part, of my own religion's 11th Article of Faith-- I memorized all 13 of them before I was 12, because they ARE central to my faith.

Apiarist said...

your reply did not answer my question Why do Mormons believe that any criticism of their doctrine is purely inspired by Satan? Your reply is subjective, personal "testimony." I would appreciate a simple answer,please.The answer would start off like this: Mormons believe that any criticism of our doctrines are inspired by Satan because_______.then answer the question.
So the hair on fire-y (how endearing) McConkie's exhortations are considered ammunition against your faith, yet this man was raised up as an apostle in your sect after he had written this ammo; to this day his "Mormon Doctrine" is a published best seller in the Mormon sect. Why is this contradiction in your acceptance of him and his writing?
The examples of your sect's leaders'very unkind and unjust remarks about other peoples' beliefs are in response to you and Jana using the emotional "persecuted people" ploy to garner sympathy and put folks that you attempt to convert on an apologetic defensive.Using psychological tactics and smooth as silk tactics to disarm and persuade.Drills and practice make perfect when one endeavors to deceive.


Apiarist said...

Good day to you SAC,

I would like to ask you about discrepencies in the "Book of Mormon".
I'm a beekeeper,and find a reference in "Book of Mormon" Ether 2:3,that claims honeybees were introduced in America around 2000 B.C. This written of course by Joseph Smith.However,scientists have demonstrated that honeybees were first brought to the New World by Spanish explorers in the fifteenth century.So Mr Smith, not being a naturalist,didn’t know anything about bees and where and when they might be found. He saw bees in America and tossed them into the mix known as Book of Mormon.Not Divinely inspired.
Textual errors, factual errors, and outright plagiarisms from other works.Not the Word of God.

Can you produce any historical proof to support the claim that in the early centuries the Church was Mormon? The Book of Mormon claims this yet it utterly lacks historical or archaeological support.Where is the support?


SAC said...

Catholic School teacher,

Thank you!


You interpret statements by my church leaders in a certain way; because I refuse to accept your interpretation, you say I haven't answered your question.

Scientists used to think there weren't horses in the Americas before the Europeans got here, either. Also, it's kind of hard to prove that something WASN'T in a place.

Why not, however, go to the heart of the matter and say that there is no way anyone could possibly accept that crazy story about Jesus coming to the Americas after his resurrection unless God Himself gave them a sign? (Which is central to The Book of Mormon). I think we would definitely agree on that one.

No faith is proved. That's why it's called faith.

SAC said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Apiarist said...

Catholic School Teacher,

New Evangelization is right here,right now.We are Catholics and we don't believe in luck or chance,we believe that everything has a reason and purpose.The Mormons SAC and Jana,the lurkers and posters who read this blog are all drawn here for a reason: to receive the words of God Almighty pure and simple.To receive the fund of faith that Catholics have tested,defended and died for over 2,000 years.
The fervent Catholics,the lukewarm Catholics,the heartfelt mormons and everyone one else who read this blog are all souls who seek the nourishing and sustaining words of God.We all have this one job and that is to Love God with all our might and love our neighbors as ourselves.
These words are in the Gospel,s so dig out your New American Bible (with the correct interpretations of greek,hebrew,aramaic,latin languages)
Put the words of Jesus Christ right up against anything that has been invented,said or written for 2,000 years and counting and you will see clearly that Jesus is the Word of God period.
Anything taken from the Bible that has been twisted,Cuisinart blendered,added to,made up is a lie and is demonic.You don't need to be a scholar to see this.Anyone using these lies to deceive believers and lead them astray is demonically motivated.
Catholics,you have the Nicene Creed; hold it word for word up against any other sects' baloney and you will see sentence by sentence that we believe in simple Truth from God,the triune God, not some blue guy with eight hands, or from some 19th century deluded man who thinks his words, that go in direct opposition to Christ's words, are "inspired testimony."
If you don't know the Catholic faith or have grown dim with it,now it the time to study it and become an Evangelist right here and right now.Pray without ceasing,for everyone and for yourself,dwell and read and think about the Word of God ,passages at a time, and savor their richness and healing.Embrace the Salvation that is From Christ Himself, his body and blood that is our salvation.Read about and emulate the saints who have lived their lives focused on God.
Order your life to God.
Our goal is to get to God and to bring as many souls with us to God ,do not pass up this duty through laziness or being persuaded that you are not a saint or an evangelist or an apostle for Christ,that is doubt and a easy tool of the devil.
We are Catholics and we don't believe in luck or chance,we believe that everything has a reason and purpose.Order your life to God.


Apiarist said...

Theological Sinkholes

1820 -1844 timeframe Early in his career as "prophet, seer, and revelator" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, which he claimed to be the "fullness of the everlasting gospel." In it are passages that proclaim there is only one God and that God can’t change. his early years Smith did not believe in the "law of eternal progression.
a1) "I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity" (Moroni 8:18).
a2) "For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and in him there is no variableness, neither shadow of changing? And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles" (Mormon 9:9-10).
b) Fourteen years later, Joseph Smith delivered a sermon at the funeral of a Mormon named King Follett. Joseph Smith said "I will preach on the plurality of gods. I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see." (King Follett Discourse)
b)"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another" (King Follett Discourse).
! SinkHole #1

Fourteen years after writing the Book of Mormon, he contradicts his earlier writings with this sermon—but he doesn’t throw aside his earlier teaching. Both are to be accepted. "testimony" about the truth of the doctrine of eternal progression.Joseph Smith is the highest authority in their sect, what he said and wrote is scripture to the mormons...so why do these two teachings from the "prophet" glaringly don’t agree with each other? You must choose one as truth and the other as false and this would make his clearly uninspired pronouncements a contradiction to the real Word of God, Jesus Christ.Mormons can’t believe that God is at once immutable and changing, that from all eternity he was as he now is, yet he evolved from a mere man,yet they do... this theological contradiction poses no problem because they don’t think through the ramifications of such a position. God is eternal and to leave it at that,Bada boom.

As Christians,we need to take God's infinite perfection into account. This is where the mormons stumble; they believe that although God is perfect now, he wasn’t always so. Once he was imperfect, as a mortal, and he had to arrive at perfection through his own labor. This is Pelagianism heresy that Mr Smith shoveled up again from the historical compost heap.This heresy has already been addressed by Catholics.You can read the refutations by the saints backed by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit.

Apiarist said...


Good day to you! I'm not interpreting statements by your sect leaders;I'm literally quoting, word for word, what they have written and spoken.
If you refuse to accept your own sect's leaders' stuff I say this is an excellent start,congratulations! I pray for you continuously in your journey of faith.

As a Christian,it is my duty to love my neighbors as myself.All people are the Face of Christ so I love all people.In love,I do advise and encourage.

Crack open the New American Bible and start your Gospels intake as soon as you can!


Jana said...

Apiarist: I would rather not get into an argument based on whose church said (or did) the most unkind things to people of other faiths. Nor would I like to argue about how one religious text should be taken on faith, while another religious text should be closely scrutinized for historical accuracy according to current understanding.

I have a great respect for the Catholic church. I also realize that some Catholic leaders have said (and done) things that weren't quite right, or need historical context, or weren't properly recorded. And that is all right.

De Maria said...

Hi SAC, you said,

SAC said...
De Maria: great questions!


Unfortunately, because I am very tired and unsure of my ability to write answers out clearly tonight, I'm not even going to try.


If really want, you can wander over to try chatting with a Real Live Mormon on mormon.org, or invite the missionaries over, or talk to your Mormon friends; if any of the above aren't sure how to answer you, it's high time they figured it out. And yes, DO tell them I said that.

That's ok. I talk to whomever God sends my way.

Cool that you're using the KJV! I love the language used-- having been raised reading it was a HUGE advantage, both spiritually and intellectually, that I did not even begin to appreciate until I was an adult.

You ought to read the Douay Rheims.

It uses the same Olde English. But it contains verses which I love to hear, like:
Hail full of grace (Luke 1:28).
She shall crush your head as you strike at her heel (Gen 3:15).

And of course, it contains the Deuterocanonicals which the Protestants removed.

I am a little confused, though-- do American Catholics usually use this Protestant (if excellent) translation of the Bible?


I am in no way, shape, or form an expert on Catholics, but I had understood that you-all used the Vulgate because you and the Separated Brethren have slightly different views on what should be included.

I'm glad you like it.

1. We use versions of the Bible based on the Vulgate. True.

2. However, non-Catholics, with whom I frequently, generally prefer Protestant versions of Scripture. The one they prefer the most is the KJV. Therefore, that is the one I use the most.

3. I believe any version of Scripture which is faithfully interpreted will support Catholic Doctrine. Even the New World Translation, possibly the worst translation ever written can be used to confirm Catholic Doctrine.

4. Catholic Doctrine is the fulfillment of the Old Testament and the basis for the New. That is why every version of Scripture used by Christians, will prove Catholic Doctrine true.

Or perhaps you were just using it because you know that's the version Mormons usually use, and you're hoping to be fair in your arguing with us?

Yes. Thanks.


De Maria

Apiarist said...


There is no argument going on,I'm simply quoting your sect leaders' writings and testimonies word for word.Aren't these things they state what you believe as a mormon? They are quoted straight from your church founder and leaders' mouths and pens.I've cited the references,they are all there.

If so,then you can bolster these writings,testimonials and statements and stand up for your beliefs.

If not,then why would anyone willingly read and listen to you going on about your belief system
If you can't even step up for it?

from the most Precious Christ, our Redeemer and Holy God ~
Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.


family care foundation said...

For me its not about the religion where to service but its about you, if you are really welling to give yourself to, open your heart and understand thing around you. Please dont just other ofcourse just listening to them .


SAC said...

I'm trying to get Blogger to let me remove my last post. I am still thankful to Catholic School Teacher, but the rest was a) akin to yelling and slamming the door as I left the room and b) not relevant to the current discussion.

Apologies to all, but especially to Apiarist. You do have your reasons, I am sure.

Apiarist said...

As I studied the genealogy of mormonism,it is quite clear that Joseph Smith,was also rehashing Arianism which has been discussed on this blog (recall some time back the Story of St Nicholas slapping Arius the heretic at the First Council of Nicaea)

I'm compelled,like Catholics through the ages,to bring to light stumbling blocks that would cause any Christian to fall into error through deception.

For the mormon theological beliefs on Jesus Christ,the Holy Spirit,and men obtaining divinity as gods,
you can read Catholic Answers http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-gods-of-the-mormon-church

It's as offensive as Nicholas found it in 325 AD.


Anonymous said...

its not about the arguing issues, its about the give and take issue just give your ears to them to listen and talk what they are told you. Vice versa! That's all!!

the family international videos

Anonymous said...

The first 3 centuries after Christ was resurrected aren't silent. There are documents available today from just a few decades after Christ's passion...and, guess what, the early church was Catholic! Read "Four Witnesses"by Rod Bennett, or read the writings themselves. I do love how he summed it all up though.
And,umm, I am not Catholic, at least not officially yet. I was raised protestant, and pretty much remained that way until...it's a long story.
One thing that has bothered me is the lack of Catholic ppl talking about their faith and the one time I've been able to attend a RCC no one even talked to me, and I didn't just run put the door when service was over,I hung around - even bought something from the bookstore.

A- have you read "Under the Banner of Heaven"? It's an interesting read about the Mormon church if you can get past the should've lack of belief.

Anonymous said...

SMM - I really, REALLY, appreciate your ministry thru this blog. Thank you.

My problem/question is how do I become Catholic?I went to a service but felt so totally lost, I didn't know who to talk to our where to sit or what exactly to do...it was intimating. And as a converting protestant one of my hurdles is calling the Priest "father", is there something else I can call him? I know that's a silly thing to be stuck on since Paul called himself father;I just need to pray about it to come to peace with it still. I thought the hardest part would be praying to saints, but it was actually the easiest after reading the Catholic perspective on it I found it very Beautiful.